Talk:Labour Party (UK)

"Centre-left"

Isnt it time to change this to something aligned with reality? Many sources quote Labour being at the very least centrist if not centre - right / right wing. Frankly I can't think of anything centre - left about Labour anymore as they are largely against public spending and are trending toward austerity listening to Reeves. Feedtherooks (talk) 14:18, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

The current sources are largely all 2015.

Today, a very large amount of sources quote Labour as a centre-right party or centre party, specifically calling starmer right leaning in various terms. Labour has also said they won't be raising income tax, may do public spending cuts and they are welcoming Tory MPs to join while not allowing Diane Abbott etc back even though she was cleared.

Furthermore, Starmer constantly talks about how Labour has changed economically and one of the deflectors to Labour from the Tories even said he did it because the Tories aren't centre-right anymore.

Quite simply I think centre-left is just inaccurate now in any context, they don't sit in the centre left of British politics, global politics, internal labour politics or indeed any interpretation at all of politics that I can see. Starmer has even been making right wing social statements such as the recent trans comments. are current sources saying centrist and "very much centre-right". Even describing their last govt, it is commonly accepted that Blair etc were centre-right. Compared to Corbyn's Labour, Starmer is quick to tell you that Labour has politically changed and he means shifted righrwards. Labour is also also openly taking in right - far right Tories and not allowing in certain suspended Labour members who have been cleared like Diane Abbott. One of the Tories who defected to Labour even said they did it because the Tories aren't Centre-right anymore (implying Labour is).

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/labour-starmer-faces-problems-in-government-policy-centre-right-gaza-climate-crisis/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/05/labour-can-be-proud-of-its-local-election-results-but-theres-still-a-way-to-go

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/opinion-keir-starmer-may-sleepy-112843015.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADPgHtTmV56meuPWynmb9eBzHuCAKFoSFI_gfPO7ncadZTsu6uS1YdHjIxdkb-mPHJgiGBQwnAkJlAaRz243bfRopv3_D_dod_veL32zKuBU9pZI9-H9blEBs_qDiQpC_aPRr8TvyID5IdsurRC0QfOa9raWq942AkzgqInw73Nr

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/11/rightwing-media-reaction-keir-starmer-labour-speech-murdoch

https://eastangliabylines.co.uk/politics/political-punches-exchanged-between-starmer-and-sunak-over-suffolk-tory-defector/

https://le.ac.uk/politics/research/research-projects/previous-research-projects/competing-on-the-centre-right

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/more-than-100-business-leaders-back-uks-opposition-labour-party-before-vote-2024-05-28/

https://www.politico.eu/article/keir-starmer-labour-party-prime-minister-british-elections/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/27/top-tory-mp-defects-to-labour-in-fury-at-nhs-crisis Feedtherooks (talk) 14:40, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

One of the sources you list calls Starmer centre-left. Several say that Labour has moved "towards the centre". Several say Labour is trying to appeal to centre-right voters. None of them, except one letter to the editor which is not a high quality source, call the Labour Party centre-right. The ideology of the Labour Party is also something covered by academic and book sources, which are generally better than news sources and blogs. Ralbegen (talk) 17:11, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Who has written a book on the current Labour Party? That doesn't make sense. 91.125.23.152 (talk) 18:54, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Also that's not even true. The first two specifically say centre right for a start. Also the policies are clearly centre right and a lot of them talk about the push for centre right voters.

The one you are referring to, the Politico article, calls him centre left and then spends the entire time explaining how he attacks the left.

The current sources saying centre left are not academic or book sources. I also strongly disagree given politics changes rapidly. And books on post 97 labour typically call Labour a centrist - centre right party anyway! 91.125.23.152 (talk) 18:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

The first source—an opinion piece, not news or analysis—talks about "suspicions that under Starmer, Labour is now on the centre-right"—it does not assert that the party is, it says that some voters might think that and that's why they're frustrated. The second one is a letter to an editor. The third one is an opinion piece that says Starmer "must pitch for business-friendly centre-Right votes"—not that he, or the party, is on the centre-right. The fourth one says "Leader writers at the centre-right Times noted that Starmer sounded like a prime minister-in-waiting". The fifth one is a quote from a defecting MP that you are projecting onto. The sixth one says "has moved towards the centre after veering left under his predecessor, Jeremy Corbyn" and does not mention the political right. The Politco article differentiates between the centre-left and the left wing, which is a normal distinction to make. The final article repeats the same quote from Poulter.

It's correct to look for secondary source coverage but search terms aren't enough: the sources have to actually support including something. None of these does. This is something which has been discussed to death on this page and the times I have done a survey of coverage—when Corbyn was leader and users were proposing a change to "left-wing" or "far-left"—it has been very clear that reliable sources do not consider the leadership of Tony Blair or Jeremy Corbyn to fundamentally alter the centre-left character of the Labour Party.

Doing a quick survey of scholarly works published during the current leadership we find those that characterise the Labour Party as centre-left:

A progressive politics of work for the age on unpeace

The Politics of Social Democracy (which includes Labour in a survey of the centre-left across different countries)

Melancholia and Anti-Populist Discourse: The Case of the British Labour Party

A New Dilemma of Social Democracy? The British Labour Party, the White Working Class and Ethnic Minority Representation

What does it mean to be pro-European? The case of the European centre-left and centre-right in Austria, Germany and the UK

This one is interesting, talking about Labour moving "to the right (towards the political centre)", which is widely attested, as moving to left left was under Corbyn. But there is not high quality sourcing available for either period indicating that the party's character as a whole has changed. I can't find any academic sources that refer to Labour as centre-right—only sources that talk about the centre-right of the party in the way that internal party spectrums are often discussed. This has been discussed to death: in 2005, 2006 (twice), 2007 (twice), 2008 (twice, 2010 (twice), 2011, 2012, 2014 (four times now), 2015, 2016 (three times), 2017 (twice), 2018 and 2019 (several times). There was an RfC in 2019 which concluded: "It is highly unlikely that any future RFC to change "centre-left" to "centre-left to left-wing", "left-wing", or any other label, will be successful, unless it can be shown that the consensus of reliable sources explicitly use the new proposed label. "Consensus of reliable sources" doesn't mean unanimity, but it doesn't mean a minority viewpoint, either. If only some sources use the new proposed label, that may support an attributed statement in the body, but not necessarily a statement in wiki-voice in the lead. If no sources use the new proposed label, then we certainly cannot use the new proposed label in wiki-voice. Guidance can be found at WP:DUE." Ralbegen (talk) 20:32, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

I think this shows the inherent flaw in Wikipedia and main cause of the total inaccuracy. The current Labour Party in the Overton window of the post war consensus would be far right on the British spectrum, or alternatively if Labour is centre left then the Tories under Macmillan would be far left.

Doesnt make any sense. A party that vows to largely continue the policies of a right wing party without any pull left is not centre left under any definition. 91.125.23.152 (talk) 18:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

This is WP:OR. We need sources that call them centre-right, and it'd have to be significant. — Czello ^(music) 07:14, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

If this is social democracy then the social democracy article should be entirely rewritten to reflect the fact we now consider right-wing policies like austerity and tax cuts for rich people to be social democratic ideals. You can't have it both ways. I'm not even going to touch on the fact that democratic socialism is in the infobox, this one is self-explanatory to anyone with even a basic level of reading comprehension. Michail (blah) 11:05, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Again, though, this is WP:OR. Whatever description or term is used by reliable sources is what we use. — Czello ^(music) 11:59, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Also the sources mentioned determing it as "centre-left" are very outdated the latest one being from 2015. Takis S1 (talk) 11:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/labour-party-alignment

For the last 9 months it has been considered slightly right of center I believe placing them on centre to centre right or contre to centre left or just centre and historically left wing is the way. In fact the guardian says that the Lib Dems may be considered more left wing than labour. So in fact there are sources.

"Labour has insisted on sticking to an increasingly conservative economic script"

"the real relevance of the plans is what they say about the party’s willingness – in contrast to Labour – to confront the concentrated wealth and corporate power that drain the UK’s potential."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/10/lib-dems-progressive-mantle-robust-opposition-labour Takis S1 (talk) 11:54, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

This is all WP:OR or WP:SYNTH. None of these directly call Labour centre-right. — Czello ^(music) 12:19, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

One does indeed say that "Labour has insisted on sticking to an increasingly conservative economic script" economic conservatism can in no way be considered left of centre I say it should either be centre or centre right. Best case scenario Centre with left and centre left factions. Also for labour to be considered more right wing than the lib dems (which are considered centre to centre left) that at least implies labour is centre. Takis S1 (talk) 15:01, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

That's still WP:OR. If it doesn't explicitly say centre-right, we don't either. — Czello ^(music) 15:04, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

https://unherd.com/newsroom/labour-is-now-the-centre-right-party/

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/labour-is-taking-the-centre-right-from-the-tories-3088606

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/06/05/in-the-uk-the-left-wing-of-the-labour-party-accuses-keir-starmer-of-a-purge_6673798_4.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cv22n56e3z6o

Those are Sources That do in fact call them straight up centre right but if somebody is economically conservative can he still be centre left? because youre basically saying yes. Takis S1 (talk) 15:13, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

The BBC article doesn't say Labour is centre-right. Nor does the Le Monde article. Two of your other sources are opinion pieces, and not particularly reliable sources. Sorry, but this very much feels like you're clutching at straws. GhostOfNoMan 20:02, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Further Information.

https://unherd.com/newsroom/how-left-wing-is-labours-manifesto/

"By most accounts, the 2024 manifesto will sit on the Right of this ideological ledger." Takis S1 (talk) 15:17, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Currently, I cant see any solid argument for Labour being centre-left and many that say it isn't. Takis S1 (talk) 14:09, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

It's also worth pointing out that we typically don't change a party's political position based on their current leader, as that tends to be a case of WP:RECENTISM. We didn't change it from "centre-left" to simply "left-wing" under Jeremy Corbyn, for example, despite there being a noticeable shift in policy. — Czello ^(music) 14:20, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Valid point but the left party of the party is actively being purged therefore the push to the right is more unnatural and with more parties trying to catch the disatisfied left it may aswell be considered permenant. Takis S1 (talk) 14:26, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Also since Blair the party has been more or less been going right Corbyn was an outlier. Takis S1 (talk) 14:29, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Whether or not it's permanent remains to be seen; we can't assume that per WP:CRYSTAL. I'd be inclined to say that such a defining shift can only really be determined after a few years in power, such as come the next election.

As for the second point, sources largely called Labour centre-left until very recently, which includes under Brown and Miliband. Corbyn was just further left. — Czello ^(music) 14:47, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Wait wasnt the page changed to add "Democratic Socialism" as an ideology during the corbyn years? Takis S1 (talk) 15:08, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

As far as I can recall it predated his leadership – I think we've always had democratic socialism and social democracy (one source is from 2000, the other is from 2015 but before Corbyn became leader). — Czello ^(music) 15:11, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Interesting I agree with that and we will see in the following years especially because of the very high possibility of a labour government. Takis S1 (talk) 15:21, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

I think that there are plenty if not a large consensus of sources that have started talking about its shift to the right and even one that says that they have become more right wing than the Liberal democrats (or more that the lib dems are "pushing the proggresive mantle") https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/10/lib-dems-progressive-mantle-robust-opposition-labour

Therefore, calling them centre left is definantly wrong the majority of labour's policies are right of centre and with constant attacks on the left by Keir Starmer the party should be considered at least Centrist.

"By most accounts, the 2024 manifesto will sit on the Right of this ideological ledger."

https://unherd.com/newsroom/how-left-wing-is-labours-manifesto/(14 June, 2024)

"Starmer left-wing purge row is not dying down"

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cv22n56e3z6o(30 May 2024)

"The British public is increasingly willing to place its trust in a centre-right party with no major spending commitments, which is looking to make Brexit work and which aims to reduce the national debt over the next parliament."

https://unherd.com/newsroom/labour-is-now-the-centre-right-party/(1 September, 2023)

All these sources are not dated. Takis S1 (talk) 14:23, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

The only people calling labour centre-left in 2024 are far right sources and confused people 91.125.23.152 (talk) 19:01, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Not sure how relevant this is, but The Political Compass website rates the current Labour manifesto as centre-right. G-13114 (talk) 16:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Although it's difficult to place them as their economic message is incredibly vague, I think describing a party that is advocating for the renationalisation of railways and GB Energy etc as centre-right is a bit silly personally. I'm also very doubtful that any reliable source (academic source ideally) would explicitly categorise them as centre-right as well. I do think the democratic socialist label in the infobox is a bit dated though Michaeldble (talk) 18:50, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@G-13114 Not at all relevant as Political Compass's election charts are notoriously out of touch. — Czello ^(music) 21:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Out of touch with whom? 81.153.140.220 (talk) 05:59, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@81.153.140.220 Reality. — Czello ^(music) 06:56, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Centre-left is such a vague term, it should be taken out. Note that while Google books returns lots of books about far-right politics, there's nothing about centre-left politics. The center left depends on what the writer means. That's why there are endless arguments about this field for hundreds of parties.

Since our determination is based on the ideology, it's redundant information.

Also, there is a distinction between party ideology and policy. While ideology is like a flagstaff, policies shift according to the prevailing winds. With the normalization of far right politics in recent years, the policies of all parties has shifted right, but the parties' relative position to each other has remained the same.

We can see that in the Political Compass. Most normal people taking the test find themselves in the bottom left quadrant, while all major parties place in the upper right. TFD (talk) 20:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I propose the best consesus could be

Centre to Centre-Right [1] [2] [3]

Factions:

Centre-left

Left-Wing [4] Takis S1 (talk) 10:21, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Centre-left to left-wing is more ideal 2A0A:EF40:E4A:E101:24E5:C88D:EFF9:B87 (talk) 19:36, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm actually quite shocked some people think Labour are a centre-right party. Their recent pledges look like a centre-left party to me. 2A0A:EF40:E4A:E101:24E5:C88D:EFF9:B87 (talk) 19:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

how? Like genuinly list me one policy that is centre left. Even Keir Starmer said that part of his economic program is based off bideonomics Takis S1 (talk) 21:15, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Bideonomics is center to center-left Slovansky (talk) 15:21, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

At least I don't think a party willing to create Great British Railways and Great British Energy is a "Center-right" party. Awdqmb (talk) 12:41, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

no the leftists are minor factions nowadays the general consesus is centrist or centre-left even here Takis S1 (talk) 21:14, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

We should follow reliable sources' descriptions of the party. Cherrypicking a mixture of letters, pieces on the leader (not the party) and essentially conducting original research are very poor practice. If you wish to challenge this long-standing and well-reasoned consensus, you'll need to open an RFC. Domeditrix (talk) 17:25, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

"Centre-Right" "Social Democracy" "Party of European Socialists" "Socialist International", which one of these things don't belong. Slovansky (talk) 01:11, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Feedtherooks Yes, Labour is clearly Right Wing, why is this even a question? 109.170.181.75 (talk) 14:14, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Absolutely. The party is centre to centre-right, or just centre right. I've already done a thing supporting it so I'll restate that here, ommitting the irrelevant parts.

Considering their selection for their candidates this election, and the fact that they self-sabotaged Corbyn (source) and kicked him out of the party (source), it cannot be said that they are centre-left to left-wing at all, barely even centre left at that point.

What a party says itself in its manifesto is often not reliable, and often they do not reflect the ideology of the party itself. There must be third party reliable sources saying it is centre-left. I have not seen any reliable third party sources saying the Labour party is centre-left, from after the expulsion of Corbyn, which are about it being centre-left (not just saying it within it briefly through circular sourcing). I have three saying it's centre-right. 1 2 3. (Note sources 2 and 3 are opinion, though are still of value while adjusting for that).

Additionally, the party itself says it is pro-business (source), which is mutually exclusive with being pro-worker; centre-left politics is pro-worker first and foremost, within a welfarist democratic capitalist system.

I do not see how they are still centre-left at all when they have shifted right on the economy (Blair notoriously gave up to the right mostly on economics), on immigration, on the EU, on trans rights, etc.}

Additionaly, the party under Starmer is, on almost all if not all issues, to the right of '''Joe Biden''', who is a centre to centre-left social liberal. And, in the UK, the Liberal Democrats are to the left of Labour on all issues, '''especially''' social and foreign policy.

So, I do not think it is centre-left at all. A Socialist Trans Girl 10:27, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

A LabourList column went on to suggest Labour's "right-ward march continues" I think it's significant, theyre clearly trying to appeal to a more Third Way centrist approach, obviously continuing in the spirit of Blair, furthermore there is evidence to suggest that Labour have subsumed the more reactionary, markedly right wing elements of Blue Labour into their program, as several news outlets have suggested. There is clearly ideological overlap between the Blairite wing of the party (who are now government) and Blue Labour who've clearly influenced Starmer on economy and social/cultural issues. They are "socialist" (or social democratic) in name only. Many social democratic parties in Europe, have exhibited similiar attitudes, like Olaf Scholz and François Hollande. Also, "left wing conservatism" exists, as a syncretic ideology, it is clear from the outset that Labour's current leadership has synthesized ideas from Blue Labour, Blairism and "small c" conservatism into whatever their current ideological platform is. Only time will tell how Starmer's premiership turns out to be but discussion should be had about their current ideological character before more edits are made.

https://labourlist.org/2023/09/labour-shadow-cabinet-reshuffle-who-what-means/

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/has-keir-starmer-found-the-sweet-spot-in-british-politics/

https://unherd.com/2020/09/keir-starmer-a-true-conservative/

https://www.economist.com/britain/2020/09/26/keir-starmers-rather-conservative-message-to-britain 2A00:23C5:EDB1:1:38BC:FAE2:BF2:3654 (talk) 16:47, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

If any change were to be made, the change should be to label the party as “centre”.

But, to be perfectly honest, I think we should wait to see what Starmer’s government actually does. Putting VAT on private school fees, investing in green energy, and privatising rail networks DO NOT strike me as the acts of a centre-right party. DWMemories (talk) 14:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

They could be. Center right government have certainly nationalized companies and been pro-environment, while center left government have privatized and harmed the environment. TFD (talk) 16:00, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I get your point but I still don’t support a change. Especially with Angela Rayner as the Deputy PM (who identifies as party of the party’s soft left).

Give it another few months and we’ll have a much better idea of what the now party stand for. DWMemories (talk) 21:27, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Just seen Czello posted this on another talk page. This discussion needs to end.

-

No consensus to change the political position and moratorium on further discussions around their political position until January 2025. DWMemories (talk) 21:34, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

The only definition I have seen of center-left is to group together the Democratic Party of the United States with the social democratic parties of Europe. The category is helpful because the Democrats, although a liberal party, face a right-wing opposition. Similarly, center-right groups U.S. Republicans with European Christian Democrats, conservatives and right-wing liberals. But that's confusing too, because a lot of these "center right" parties have far right elements. Why not drop these categories that raise more questions than provide answers? TFD (talk) 02:13, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Ideology

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Keir Starmer moved the Labor Party to move from social democracy to Socialism. Generally, Keir has also exhibited authorian tendences by restricting free speech and jailing people simply based on their opinions. If I were in the UK and I said this, I would likely be jailed . The political position of the party should be changed to left wing at the least, consider making it far left. User73663828 (talk) 04:23, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Wouldn't that mean Starmer had moved to the right? TFD (talk) 16:02, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Absolutely not, for a start what the police is doing isn't authoritarianism but stopping racist rioters, even if it was authoritarian, socialism is not necessarily authoritarian and authoritarianism isn't necessarily socialist and to claim so is extremely ignorant. Third of all, Labour has been actively shifting to the right in recent years, it actually bewilders me that the Wikipedia page for Labour doesn't actually list it as a centrist or right wing party due to their support of austerity measures and social conservatism on issues like trans rights Locked101 (talk) 23:34, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

@User73663828 What?? Starmer moved the party to the right, y'know, with the corbyn thing and such. And authoritarianism is right-wing, as left-wing politics opposes hierarchy. A Socialist Trans Girl 01:45, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

This post is drivel. I recommend we simply ignore it.

Starmer has moved the party to the right. Corbyn moved the party to the left. The party’s position today remains centre-left.

Jailing far-right extremists for inciting hate and violence is NOT an inherently left-wing thing to do.

Keep the page as it is and lock this discussion. DWMemories (talk) 22:41, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2024

In the "Ideology" section, there is the following sentence:

"The Labour Party gained a socialist commitment with the party constitution of 1918, Clause IV of which called for the "common ownership", or nationalisation, of the "means of production, distribution and exchange"."

Common ownership does not just mean nationalisation. Please delete the "or nationalisation" clause. DeclanMurphy0212 (talk) 20:28, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: I'm sorry, but you're going to have to find a source to support that change, since we don't allow original research. If you do find a source, feel free to open this request back up, or get autoconfirmed and edit the article yourself. ⸺(Random)staplers 23:51, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Largest political party in local government

Is there any way, or in an acceptable form, that the following could be appended to the main first section of the page, after where it says: “ It is the governing party of the United Kingdom, having won the 2024 general election, and is currently the largest political party by number of votes cast and number of seats in the House of Commons.”, to possibly mention: “It is also presently the largest political party in local government since May 2023.” 2A04:4A43:4B9F:D38D:4D10:A4ED:83DF:EBC1 (talk) 00:31, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Spectrum position

Describing the Labour Party as 'centre-left to left-wing' would be more apt given both that it would mirror the Tory Party page and because there are ample sources to describe the party or (more accurately) factions thereof as left-wing:

From convergence to Corbyn: Explaining support for the UK’s radical left https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261379422000610

On the verge of power, is Britain's Labour Party purging left-wing candidates? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/uk-election-starmer-labour-party-accused-purging-left-wing-candidates-rcna154624

Political Ideology and Social Services Contracting: Evidence from a Regression Discontinuity Design https://orca.cardiff.ac.uk/id/eprint/129657/1/Politics%20of%20contracting%20RDD%20-%20Alonso%20and%20Andrews.pdf "In particular, there is a clear partisan division between the main left-wing party (Labour) and political parties with pronounced pro-market preferences, such as the right-wing Conservative Party"

Cheers! Will Thorpe (talk) 07:11, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

There's no obligation for opposing articles to mirror one another; that would be WP:FALSEBALANCE. — Czello ^(music) 07:28, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

@Czello note both. False balance is true but evidently there are left-wing elements in the Labour Party. Will Thorpe (talk) 00:27, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

These terms only make sense in context. One of your sources for example calls Labour a left-wing party, while another refers to a minority left-wing within Labour. Notice they are using different definitions of left-wing. Labour is left-wing relative to the Tories, while Corbyn supporters are left-wing relative to Starmer. But there's no context when those terms are put in the info-box, so are better left out so as not to confuse or mislead readers. TFD (talk) 16:25, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

This article practically exists to launder what's left of Labour's reputation after it decided to go full Red Tory, so I think we are well past "confusing or misleading" readers. Michail (blah) 22:08, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Whether using such a description “would mirror” another page does not mean it “would be more apt”. As others point out, it’s not a factor relevant to page content. Two of the sources to which you refer describe the party under a different leader whose tenure ended nearly five years ago, a period when it could well be described as left-wing and which is widely regarded as an outlier in the party’s recent history. The other (NBC) does not characterise the article subject as a left-wing party, and the topic of the article is an understanding that certain activities are indicative that the party is lurching to the political right. Cambial — foliar❧ 22:35, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I will note that a better way of explaining what I meant by comparing the article to the Tory Party article is not equivalence for its own sake but equivalence in terms of how sources are treated when they offer differing spectrum positions. Will Thorpe (talk) 02:15, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

ideology should list democratic socialism as well.

Labour is mostly centre left and social democratic more than anything else yes but the party does still have members, mps and many factions (such as the socialist campaign group in the parliamentary party) dedicated to democratic socialism.

at the very least it should be listed below social democracy with (factions) following it. Tamblingb (talk) 02:35, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Is there any reason you don't do this yourself? It should be a small change, and your latter version should be uncontroversial. — Charles Stewart (talk) 03:35, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Should be first since it is the official ideology of the party, per Clause IV. TFD (talk) 04:09, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

There was a consensus to remove democractic socialism from the infobox. For it to be re-added you'd need a new RfC that addresses the comments made previously, including newer sources that use that label. — Czello ^(music) 07:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)