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Elections in Independent Ireland category

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Please stop adding Elections in Independent Ireland category to this page and to Irish general election 1921 page. Yes, Irish independence was proclaimed in 1916 and was declared by the 1st Dáil in January 1919 but that does not make it a reality. The Irish Republic states it existed from 1919 to 1922. The 1918 election was a UK one, run by the British government, how is this an election in an Independent Ireland? If a county is independent then it can run its own elections as the Free State government did in 1922. Also what about the people in Ireland who didn't recognise the Irish Republic and thought they were continuing to live in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Another thing, the Irish War of Independence started in January 1919 (and ended in 1921), so how could an election in December 1918 be held in an Independent Ireland?

But rather than get into a revert war and discussions on when Ireland became independent, I think the categories should be re-organised.

The current structure is: 

Elections by country 
  [+] Elections in Ireland 
  [+] Elections in the Republic of Ireland 
      [+] Elections in independent Ireland

A better arrangement would be: 

Elections by country 
  [+] Elections in Ireland (all elections up to and including 1921)
      [+] Elections in independent Ireland (all elections from 1922 to 1948)
      [+] Elections in the Republic of Ireland (all elections from 1949)

It's not perfect, but the 1918 and 1921 elections would then reside in the Elections in Ireland only, conveniently, side stepping any potential POV issues like actual date of Independence. There are other issues like presidential elections, the first 2 are in independent Ireland, the rest in RoI category, not exactly ideal, they should surely be in the same category. The difficulty is in trying to come up with categories for the following periods of history:

  • British rule, until 1916/1919/1922 (take your pick!)
  • Irish Republic, 1919-1922
  • Irish Free State, 1922-1937
  • Ireland/Éire, 1937-1948
  • Republic of Ireland, 1949-

All suggestions welcome! Snappy56 18:57, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are we using British electorial history or are we using Irish Electoral History, Independence was declared in 1916, reconfirmed by the First Dáil Éireann after the 1918 General election, trying looking at the Dail database.--padraig 21:07, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We are talking about reality based electoral history! IMHO, Irish independence was a process, starting with the Easter Rising and ending in the Anglo-Irish treaty. Ireland didn't magically become independent as soon as P.H. Pearse read the proclamation or happen when the 1st Dáil declared unilateral independence, these were steps on the way.

This text is from Irish Republic:

The goal of those who established the Irish Republic was to create a de facto independent republic comprising the whole island of Ireland. They failed in this goal, but the Irish Republic paved the way for the creation of the Irish Free State, a Commonwealth dominion with self-government, and a territory that extended to the 26 counties originally foreseen in the 1914 Home Rule Act. By 1949 the Free State became a fully independent republic, the 'Republic of Ireland'.

Speaking in the Dáil on 29 April 1997, Bertie Ahern, the leader of the Fianna Fáil party, which is the successor of the anti-treaty Sinn Féin, and the then Taoiseach (head of government) John Bruton, leader of the Fine Gael party, which is the successor of the pro-Treaty Sinn Féin, agreed that as a basis for inclusive commemoration, the date from which Irish independence should be measured was not the formation of the Irish Republic in 1919, but the 1922 establishment of the Irish Free State, the first modern Irish state to achieve de facto and de jure independence, and therefore international recognition.

This is the position of Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and presumably the other Dáil parties which makes it a majority position, so although you have a different opinion, you should respect the majority one. Btw, Do you have any suggestions for category changes? Snappy56 19:24, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the "Elections in Ireland" template, categories and similar items should include Northern Ireland elections (and UK & EU elections in Northern Ireland). Then we could, without distortion, have a smoother series starting with or before Grattan's Parliament, continuing with elections in Ireland under the Union of 1801-1922, and covering all the elections on the island of Ireland without having to make judgements about the legitimacy, coverage or jurisdiction of the individual bodies or referendum decisions they produced. See for comparison the templates for constituencies in individual Irish (including Northern Irish) counties and for elections from Irish universities. —— Shakescene (talk) 02:54, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved: no consensus in 27 days. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:41, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Irish general election, 1918 → 1918 general election in Ireland – As noted in the discussion above. The current title is unsupportable, as this was not a separate election; my proposal avoids this problem without placing unnecessary emphasis on the United Kingdom. Kotniski (talk) 10:33, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

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The current title is not unsupportable, as noted in the discussion above. --Domer48'fenian' 13:35, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose, though what we are dealing with here is the "1918 general election" or "general election of 1918", (insofar as it took place) in Ireland; so I would slightly prefer not to put the year right at the end, separated from the words "general election". But your suggestion is still an improvement over the current title.--Kotniski (talk) 15:54, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. What is meant by the title is explained clearly in the first sentence of the article. Therefore the title is fine and there is no need for a move to anywhere. Scolaire (talk) 16:13, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
By that logic, any title would be fine. But this title is obviously not fine, since it misleads as to the facts.--Kotniski (talk) 16:29, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Bizarre comment! Any title would not be fine. The current one is, per the reasoning in the previous move discussion. Scolaire (talk) 20:22, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Even looking at the above discussion, I'm not seeing any justification for using the present title, just dissatisfaction with the idea of including "United Kingdom" in the title, which I agree is unnecessary. The fact is that this is not the article about an "Irish general election", just the Irish part of a general election, so I don't see how anyone can reasonably want to keep the present title.--Kotniski (talk) 07:25, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Whether you can see or not, reasonable people want to keep the present title. Each of us has stated our reasons; if you can't understand them it's not our problem. I count seven times now that you have said the same thing, as though by endless repetition you could convince people of the truth of your argument. You won't. You need to step back and allow others to have their say. Scolaire (talk) 07:52, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be delighted if others would have their say; but all they seem to be saying is "I like the present title" without responding to the very serious objection to it that I presume we can all see. Can you finally tell us what is the justification for a serious encyclopedia's referring as an "Irish general election" to something that was not a general election, but only part of one? If some actual arguments were advanced, I might be persuaded.--Kotniski (talk) 08:09, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
But the purpose of an RM is not to persuade you, Kotniski. The purpose of an RM is to seek consensus for a move. As of now that consensus seems to be wanting. Neither you nor anybody else has the authority to move an article simply because you aren't persuaded by the arguments against, or to demand that a !vote or a response includes the answers to specific questions. Scolaire (talk) 08:26, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'll take it from that response that you have no arguments. I conclude there is probably some PoV motivation behind keeping the inaccurate title. I know from experience that we encyclopedia-building geeks can never win against the forces of nationalist fervour, so I hereby give up.--Kotniski (talk) 11:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I thought you would conclude that, since it is always the knee-jerk reaction of "encyclopedia-building geeks" who have there own PoV disputed. Now, if you were to post on my talk page in a friendly way, and ask me as a personal favour to help you understand the logic of the article title, I might do so. My objection is only to being told, by a geek or any other person, that my contribution to a discussion is unacceptable and I must do better. Scolaire (talk) 11:45, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Providing the arguments that support your position is considered an optional favour? This really is a bizarre new idea.--Kotniski (talk) 12:02, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Declining to respond to strident demands from one individual. Not exactly novel. Scolaire (talk) 12:16, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I'm not going to respond any more. The closing admin ought to ignore all these devoid-of-argument "opposes", but I suspect they won't, so once again, you win. --Kotniski (talk) 12:31, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see it as a "win". It is only you who have talked in such combative terms. Scolaire (talk) 17:13, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Just thought that I would put a word in edgeways here. There is no consensus for the current title at all, that much was established in the previous discussion. What that discussion however did glean was that the change I was making was not considered by many users to be an improvement and therefore to them it was worthless to change from one bad title to another. The closing admin of the last discussion actually called for a new discussion on finding an alternative name which had both consensus and was accurate, to claim otherwise is a falsehood and a perversion of the facts. Shatter Resistance (talk) 13:48, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The is no consensus to change the title and that was established in the previous request. That is all that was established. --Domer48'fenian' 14:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And so far there is no consensus to change the title in this request either. Domer, Mo Ainm and myself joined the new discussion in good faith. Shatter Resistance did not, until now. To talk of "a falsehood and a perversion of the facts" is uncivil. It should be withdrawn. Scolaire (talk) 17:13, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I have participated in this discussion, look near the top. And there was a request by closing admin in the clising comments that they saw a considerable support for the current proposal but would like to see a full discussion to establish whether it achieved enough support for consensus. To deny that is a faslehood and I won't deny it or withdraw my previous statement, if you want I will even directly quote the closing admin to prove it. Shatter Resistance (talk) 19:52, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My mistake. I have struck it. However, since you obviously knew it was a mistake (or you wouldn't have directed me to look near the top), calling it a "falsehood" is a second personal attack. You needn't directly quote the closing admin. He said that there may be more support for "1918 general election in Ireland", but he would like to see a focused discussion on the merits of that title before moving the page. I won't accuse you of falsehood or perversion, but I think that you may have misread his summary as saying that there was "considerable" support or that the current title had no consensus. I think you ought to withdraw your personal attacks now rather than dig a deeper hole for yourself. Scolaire (talk) 20:58, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support:Why don't we finesse (sidestep, fudge or blur) the issue, in the best British and Irish traditions (of which Lloyd George and de Valera were particularly adept practitioners) by calling this "The 1918 General Election in Ireland". We don't say who called it or who "owned" it, nor are we implying that it was somehow stand-alone or separate from the UK General Election of 1918, but we are specifying the election of 1918 and a particular place. There's an ambiguity here, but that's inherent in the event and in partisan interpretations of the event. The Alternative Proposal below, despite its intent, actually carries nearly the same implication of a separate or stand-alone election as does the current "Irish general election, 1918". —— Shakescene (talk) 05:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Question: How can you say "support" and at the same time say you want it moved to a different title? We need to support or oppose the title as proposed, or else open a new RM, "Move to x". Scolaire (talk) 07:08, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • A RM discussion doesn't have to move to the originally-proposed title, if consensus forms for a different title.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:55, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Understood, but the previous RM was closed two weeks ago with the comment that there might be a consensus for this current proposal. That being so, I feel we ought to vote for or against this current proposal to avoid the poll being repeatedly re-opened on the basis that a tweaked proposal might get a consensus. Scolaire (talk) 19:28, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support - This is not an article about an Irish general election, this is an article about the portion of the UK general election held in Ireland. I'd also support any reasonable variation of the proposed title thereof. Toa Nidhiki05 13:47, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose - The current title is accurate. Snappy (talk) 19:34, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I can see no good reason to move. And to say that the current title is unsupportable is laughable. Its a CuprinolRonseal title - it does exactly what it says on the tin. It is a historic moment in the formation of an Irish state. Lets not forget that at it's formation, the Irish Free State was an all-Ireland body. The North then opted-out. Fmph (talk) 09:47, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Nothing wrong with the current title. Bjmullan (talk) 17:14, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Prefer "in Ireland" to "Irish", as it was part of the UK General Election.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:55, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The current title seems (to my untutored eye) incorrect. For someone like me who has but a vague idea about Irish history, the current title implies that Ireland was independent in 1918 which turns out to be false when reading the article itself. I read the reasoning below (Scolaire) about the various Dail's and think that there are several problems with it: consistency is not an issue since this Dail is different from all the subsequent ones in Ireland. Elections may or may not be valuable but they are 'called' by an entity and the entity in this case was clearly not Ireland. The word analysis does not take into account the connotations of the words as popularly understood. Irish General Elections implies elections the country of Ireland as it exists today whereas 'in Ireland' is more accurate since it refers solely to where the elections took place. While the proposed title is less than perfect (shouldn't UK be there in it), it seems a perfect compromise given the politics of the discussion on this page. --rgpk (comment) 16:10, 6 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion - second RM

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Okay, so the demands for opposers to re-state their opposition in terms acceptable to the proposer seem to have ceased, so I will now of my own free will give a comprehensive reason for keeping the article at its present title:

  1. The present title is not misleading, and could not be misleading. If a reader clicked on "Irish teapot" and got this article they would justifiably feel misled, but a reader clicking on "Irish general election, 1918" could not then say, "oh, but I wanted to know about the 1918 election called by the Irish government", because there was no such election. To my mind two kinds of people will click this: (1) those who know what the election was and want to learn more, and they will get what they're looking for; (2) those who do not know what is was, but are curious, and they will have their curiosity satisfied by the opening sentence of the article. To say that the current title is "unsupportable" is therefore unsupportable, on these grounds at least.
  2. The other objection raised seems to be based on "ownership" of the election. But ownership of an election is an absurdity. An election is not a valuable commodity. Besides, why should there be a requirement that an article title makes clear the "ownership" of something? Should Encyclopaedia Brittanica be renamed "Encyclopaedia named 'Brittanica'" because the present title implies British "ownership" of an American publication?
  3. Does the proposed new title contain information missing from the present title? No. They both contain the word "general", they both contain the word "election", they both contain the year "1918", one contains "Irish" and the other "Ireland". Information differential: zero.
  4. So why do we "like" the present title? It's very simple, in fact. Irish general election, 2011 relates to the 31st Dáil, Irish general election, 2007 to the 30th Dáil, and so on. For historical reasons the numbering of Dálaí goes back to the revolutionary period, so the Irish general election, 1918 relates to the First Dáil. Consistency is the reason, not "nationalist POV" or any such thing.

I hope that explains it. Scolaire (talk) 14:09, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Scolaire claims that "one contains "Irish" and the other "Ireland". Information differential: zero." that is not true. To use the demonym 'Irish' implies a sense of ownership of being an election in this case belonging to the Irish. Ireland on the other hand is neutral describing a geographical area: the island of Ireland. To use Ireland therefore would reflect the multinational nature of the election, i.e. the fact the election was organised run and called for by the British government but that the consequences of the election were almost uniquely reflective in Ireland. As for the arguments against the term ownership the Britiannica part of the Encyclopaedia Brittanica reflects it origins within Britain rather the current owner of the company who own it. Shatter Resistance (talk) 19:19, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wow! Two amazing words, to reflect so much! Scolaire (talk) 19:36, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This still seems to miss the original point, which is nothing to do with ownership or anything - that the subject of this article is not a general election, it is part of a general election. That's why the present title is misleading. Obviously the right title will likely be inconsistent with the titles of articles on subsequent Irish general elections, because those actually were full general elections.--Kotniski (talk) 10:36, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for clarifying. In all the war of words it was difficult to see what the original point was. I would still prefer to see you say "That's why in my opinion the present title is misleading" and "What I consider the right title will likely be inconsistent with the titles of other articles". On WP we call that the "collaborative approach".
From the point of view of the First Dáil (which was made up of 75% of the members elected in Ireland) this was a general election, and specifically an Irish general election, which used the mechanism of the UK general election to withdraw MPs from the Imperial Parliament and set up a revolutionary assembly in Dublin. Obviously, the British government and the unionists viewed it differently. So you see it does come down to the question of "ownership", or worse, "legitimacy". Since Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy, I don't believe these should be the determining factors in choosing an article title. It should be based on what best describes the topic, although consistency is also important, as I'm sure an encyclopedia-building geek will agree. I believe, and you can count the number of editors that agree, that the present title best describes the topic of this article. Scolaire (talk) 12:17, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not seeing anything in the article or anywhere else that suggests what happened in Ireland was a separate election. This was an election which was called by the UK government and took place all over the UK at the same time. The Irish results of this election were later used as a basis for selecting the members of the first Dáil; that can't retrospectively change what the election was at the time it happened. --Kotniski (talk) 13:38, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In your opinion. Anyway, you have stated your opinion and I have stated mine. Let's just leave the RM to take its course. Scolaire (talk) 15:21, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not really seeing how this is a matter of opinion - the historical facts are as they are, and Wikipedia has no business to be reinventing them. --Kotniski (talk) 15:30, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Call the police, then. Press charges. I'm done here. Scolaire (talk) 15:56, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The General Election was called for United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. So is it suggested that the article currently titled United Kingdom general election, 1918 be changed to United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland general election, 1918? This article deals with the General Election held in Ireland in 1918. A very none scientific google search for article titles for WP:COMMONNAME seems to be refelected in the current titles.
  1. Irish General Election 1918 About 1,420,000 results
  2. United Kingdom general election, 1918 About 1,750,000 results
  3. United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland general election, 1918 About 226,000 results
On a book search we get similar results:
  1. Irish General Election 1918 About 27,300 results
  2. United Kingdom general election, 1918 About 12,600 results
  3. United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland general election, 1918 About 2,200 results
Not very scientific but hey.--Domer48'fenian' 18:32, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Would be a bit less unscientific if you'd put quotes round the search terms. And no-one's suggesting using the full name of the United Kingdom (why would we want to do that? - anyway, the current proposal doesn't even include United Kingdom in the title at all), so this seems to be a complete red herring.--Kotniski (talk) 09:35, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You have said above that "This was an election which was called by the UK government and took place all over the UK at the same time." Ireland was not within the United Kingdom (UK), rather it was considered part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The General Election of 1918 was held in both the UK and Ireland. This article is about the Irish General Election in 1918.--Domer48'fenian' 16:44, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I can't quite understand your meaning. The election was held in both Great Britain (England, Scotland & Wales) and in Ireland, but at the time, both were within the United Kingdom, and the election was held on that basis for the only parliament that then existed. Regardless of your interpretation of the Easter Proclamation, consider what might have happened if other candidates had won those 73 seats (or many of them); they would have sat in Westminster. In fact, the successful Sinn Féin candidates could have sat at Westminster; they just chose (following their announced programme) to do otherwise. But that's what the election itself was about: a choice between candidates for the UK parliament. Sinn Féin's opponents (certainly not the Unionists) weren't running to sit in the first Dáil Éireann; the two dozen other MP's elected in that very same "Irish general election" in fact sat in the Imperial Parliament at Westminster. ¶ At the same time, however, it can't be denied that the election was seen by many then and has been seen by many since as the first election to the first Dáil (whose status has been itself a matter of bitter and even bloody contention). They might see a tehnically-accurate title like UK general election in Ireland, 1918 as incomplete, inadequate or inaccurately conveying the winning party's intention of converting the results into a plebiscite on Irish independence. So the trick is to find a title that somehow neutrally incorporates both senses without misleading anyone or distorting history. 1918 General Election in Ireland seems closest to doing that. —— Shakescene (talk) 01:53, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That you can't understand the difference between the actual title United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and Great Britain or UK is neither here nor there. As I've not mentioned the Easter Proclamation, you comment above suggests another misunderstanding by you. We are not really intrested in the "what might have happened" type on arguement, but rather what did happen. This article title is correct and to the point, and I can see no arguements thus far to see why it should be changed. User:Domer48 (removed the signature formatting since for some weird reason it was making the rest of the page blue) 08:48, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
I don't really know what you're talking about. Of course the United Kingdom, the UK, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland all refer to the same thing in this context, but since none of them are part of the proposal, that seems irrelevant. And our interest in "what did happen" is precisely why the present title is wrong, as has been argued at length (it's stretching good faith to imagine that you really can't see these arguments, when they're all over this page). What did happen was that a UK general election was called, and the Irish part of it (not a separate "Irish general election") took on a significance in itself (sufficient to warrant a separate WP article). To title this article "Irish general election..." implies that there was a separate general election called in Ireland, which is apparently not true. It seems a simple enough matter (and entirely non-partisan) to me.--Kotniski (talk) 09:12, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Side issue

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I'm not sure where I'd fall on this question, but I think whatever is done or not done, maybe some effort should be made to harmonise it with the separate sequence and templates for Elections in Northern Ireland, including Northern Ireland elections to the UK parliament. Perhaps "1918" should be added to the list of Northern Ireland elections to Westminster, or perhaps other adjustments could be made. Of course the issue is slightly different since most of the members elected from the Six Counties did sit in Westminster (but then I think some of the Unionist MP's elected from the Twenty-six did, too). —— Shakescene (talk) 19:40, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hm! I haven't seen that one before. At first glance I can't see any Westminster election except the most recent one. It's my bed-time so maybe I'll look again in the morning. Scolaire (talk) 22:48, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No, it wasn't because I was tired. That's just a weird article. The first section is Elections to the European Parliament, which does nothing except link to a "constituency" article (which gives the results of all seven elections). The next is Elections to the British House of Commons, which gives tabular results of the most recent general election, but doesn't even mention any previous general election, yet links to (presumably) every bye-election back to 1921. The remainder of the list, dealing with what it calls elections "on a provincial level", is fine. I'm afraid I'm just baffled by the suggestion that we "harmonise it with the separate sequence and templates for "Elections in Northern Ireland". First of all, what is "it"? The article or the article title? How can you harmonise an article with a list? What is the "separate sequence" you are referring to? Does "templates" refer to the templates at the bottom of that article and, if so, what have any of them to do with the topic of this article? As to adding 1918 to the list of NI elections, the only way I can see of doing that is to say that in 1918 the area of Ireland that would become Northern Ireland two or three years later returned x members to the Westminster parliament and y members to Dáil Éireann. I could see people having some difficulty with that. Scolaire (talk) 07:00, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think this shows why the present title of this article is wrong (and not for any political PoV reasons, just because of the way we present facts). Northern Ireland general election, 1969 is about an election to the NI parliament, not the NI part of a general election to the UK parliament. Similarly Scottish general election, 2011 redirects (as anyone would expect it to) not to an article about the Scottish part of a UK general election, but to the elections to the Scottish parliament. It simply isn't the way we use language (at least, not when we're speaking or writing carefully, as an encyclopedia should) to use a phrase like "Irish general election" to mean "the Irish part of the general election". To one with no strong political views on any of these matters, this seems straightforward, and I've no idea why the suggestion to correct it should have aroused such heartfelt opposition.--Kotniski (talk) 09:44, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I also note the comment made at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elections and Referendums#Naming discussion - while I hope that editor is wrong in his views about the intransigence of Irish nationalists, the point about the way other articles of this type are named rather shoots out of the water the claim that by titling this article in the current way we are somehow promoting "consistency".--Kotniski (talk) 09:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Carson image

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The image of Edward Carson was removed from the infobox by FriendlyDataNerdV2 and replaced by a blank image. Can anybody explain the logic of that edit? Scolaire (talk) 11:42, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - I was unsure of the copyright status of the image as it is labelled with a large exclamation warning symbol and the words "This image might not be in the public domain outside of the United States". I'm not what this means but it implies that it isn't available for use, surely? FriendlyDataNerdV2 (talk) 12:31, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The message means only that the rules outside the US aren't always the same as the rules in the US. It doesn't imply that it's not available for use. It is not reasonable to remove anything just on the basis that you are "unsure" of its status. If in doubt, you should first check at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. The image is about 120 years old and probably taken in Dublin, so it is almost certain that the photographer is more than 70 years dead and that the photograph comes under Irish copyright law (I can't quote Irish copyright law but the good folks at WP:CQ will be able to help you). I'm restoring the image in the meantime.
Please always use an edit summary, especially when doing something like that, to explain why you are doing it. Scolaire (talk) 09:03, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for understanding and explaining - sorry about the edit. I appreciate your advice and will be sure to include such summaries in future. Apologies again. The copyright status of images is something that is consistently confusing for me and I tend to get worried about using images that don't explicitly state they are totally free to use - I know that probably seems silly. FriendlyDataNerdV2 (talk) 16:02, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't seem silly. Just remember that you can always get advice at WP:CQ. --Scolaire (talk) 18:43, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Recent election results

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The articles last line states, “ The two major parties in the Republic of Ireland today, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, are both descendants of Sinn Féin, which first enjoyed substantial electoral success in 1918.” However, in the most recent Irish General election Sinn Féin received the most first-preference votes, and won 37 seats,(also in Northern Ireland’s most recent assembly election Sinn Féin became the largest party.) Up4grabsnow77 (talk) 20:55, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 29 May 2024

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 07:40, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1918 Irish general election → 1918 United Kingdom general election in Ireland – This article is about the portion of the 1918 UK general election which was held in Ireland, similar to December 1910 United Kingdom general election in Ireland. It was not an election to the Dáil Éireann like 1922 Irish general election, as the Dáil Éireann did not exist at the time of the election, but was formed in the aftermath of the election. So the current article title is incorrect. Chessrat (talk, contributions) 23:35, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, makes much more sense when considered with the other articles DimensionalFusion (talk) 11:02, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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